Target vs Non-Target

[Trojan1]

Hi,

I've already secured and got my place at the University of my choice (Newcastle) to study Computer Science.

However, one option I really want open, is getting into high finance (investment banking etc) and for this I would most likely need to go to a Target. I'm not entirely sure about this, and it seems I would need to go to a lot of effort to get there, but it all seems worthwhile.

So my options are:

Newcastle - Computer Science, work hard to get good grades, lots of extracurriculurs (learn language, head a society, sports, debate etc) then do an MSc in some management or some crap at top 3 uni

Defer my place and go to either of these: Target - ITMB/ Something else (Warwick/UCL/ etc) Semi-target - Computer Science (Nottingham only place that I have relevant A Levels for).

Now, could any of you offer me any career advice?

For me, it would be cheaper, easier, closer to home, for me to do what I have already chosen (CS at NCL), but I don't want to rule out the possibility of getting into lucrative careers in IB.

Also, if it matters, I could probably get into the SEO scheme, as I'm of a very under-represented ethnicity and will be eligble for the full maintenance loan and other grants.

Thank you!

 

[Baby Boomer1]

You will struggle from Newcastle. Almost impossible, honestly, unless you work your ass off. Sorry if I am blunt but this is how it is. Don't forget that things do go wrong some times, so even though it seems like you planned it all out and you will work hard to achieve all of those things you may simply fail to do so. If I were you, I would defer and try getting in to a better uni. Notts can work though.

Everyone wants the possibility of a lucrative career AND the benefit of convenience and paying less for college, but sometimes it doesn't work that way, e.g. your situation. It's a trade-off. Just like you don't get rewarded in the markets if you don't take risk, it applies here as well.

SEO is awesome. Can give you a big leg up. Still, I would argue to defer your entry and try another uni if you are serious about a career in banking.

Hopefully someone else can chime in. @AlexLielacher

 

[Trojan1]

You will struggle from Newcastle. Almost impossible, honestly, unless you work your ass off. Sorry if I am blunt but this is how it is. Don't forget that things do go wrong some times, so even though it seems like you planned it all out and you will work hard to achieve all of those things you may simply fail to do so. If I were you, I would defer and try getting in to a better uni. Notts can work though.

Everyone wants the possibility of a lucrative career AND the benefit of convenience and paying less for college, but sometimes it doesn't work that way, e.g. your situation. It's a trade-off. Just like you don't get rewarded in the markets if you don't take risk, it applies here as well.

SEO is awesome. Can give you a big leg up. Still, I would argue to defer your entry and try another uni if you are serious about a career in banking.

Hopefully someone else can chime in. @AlexLielacher

Thank you for the reply. Absolutely no worries on the being blunt - I understand how competitive this field is. Another option open to me is CS at QMUL (rather be at Notts tho), but obviously, London has advantages.

Would they disregard me if I went down the Newcastle route, EVEN if I had a Masters at a higher institution? That seem's like the best way to go as it would retain the fact I would go to a Target to do the MSc, whilst having done the BSc at the place I'm set on. I would probably have to work very hard but it seems like the most appropriate way to go.

If I had it all figured out, I would most definetly just get straight into a Target, but because I didn't take Maths (took Biology, History, and Psychology instead) at A Level, it means I'm excluded from some science degrees (CS at targets). I'm also not 100% concrete on banking. If I take CS, I have the technology sector open (which seems like a lot less stress haha), but no banking, as it wouldn't be taught at a Target.

Another issue I have, I am not entirely certain I even want to go into banking. I'm young, and naive, I won't understand what a 100 hour working week is like until I do it, but man, it does look like a career I want to get into.

Apologies for rambling. Just don't know what the best route is. At this stage, a lot of things can go right, and a lot of things can go wrong. I want to apply through UCAS Adjustment if my A Levels are good, but then again, if I get mediocre grades I would probably just accept it.

 

[Baby Boomer1]

Here goes a book..

No one knows. You work hard and you get what you work for. I advise you to read CTRL ES's posts on here because it can help you get a grasp of the mentality you need to have to succeed in this industry (and pretty much any other for that matter).

You are being naive. Stop. I am not sure if you are able to comprehend the rigour of a highly technical degree as yours at a reputable school, plus you also have to think about what you will need to get a target masters. Work experience. A badass GMAT score. A minimum of 2:1. 4 or more years of your life. A lot of money. Now this may sound basic but you have to understand what all of this will take. Prolonged sacrifice, probably pain and conscious effort from your side but again we are coming back to the initial idea which is that you get what you work for. For what it's worth, peers of yours already have A-level insight days under their belt and are going to start their degrees at the best schools in the nation soon. That's your competition. Literally 100s of those people. You also probably know places are VERY limited in the front office compared to the pool of applicants every year, especially now with decreased headcounts. All of this might appear harsh to you for which I apologize but you really have to think about these things if you are serious about your future. People tend to think wishful. No offense, but you are probably doing that right now.

You can say I just need to do XYZ in one sentence and say you will become a banker no matter what, but reality then might hit you in the face. If you want to know what banking is really like you need to take the initiative. No one can help you figure out whether it's the best field for you, only you can. Lots of life is trial and error anyway.

QMUL is definitely better. You may actually have a shot there if you network, be nice and friendly and all those things.

 

[The Neur1]

I just want to add 2 things.

1. IB is a highly competitive industry, so name brand matters alot. I personally feel like that's bullshit because plenty of phenomenal people don't go to top unis. That being said you can still get in if you work your ass off. Lots of extra curriculars, internships, networking, you have to go above and beyond. I have a friend in the States that got a decent job offering even though he was not target by focusing on a niche segment (public finance, as opposed to equities, for example) and tried to position himself as best as possible.

2. Computer science is probably the most relevant field to go into right now. Things will be increasingly automated, more more software dev, etc. I would highly recommend that field if you have the interest. The thing about CS is that its so flexible. You could be a freelancer work 20 hours a week, work for a chill company at 40 hours a week, work at Tesla 60 to 80 hours a week, or anything in between. That's not the freedom you would have if you entered the finance industry.

 

[superdisc1]

I agree with other replies here. Banking appears attractive because of the deals and the money, but it will be years before you see a decent return on the time and effort you'd need to invest. So first of all figure out if you REALLY want to do it or whether it just sounds cool. Pursuing CS at Newcastle, which in the grand scheme of things is a fine university, probably unfortunately won't get you through the interview door at a bank. So if you conclude IB is for you, you may need to think about doing a masters immediately post undergrad. Also, go down the SEO route if it's open to you. You may want to look at signing up for some online modelling programmes - if you don't like the stuff they have you do or you find it really tough it's probably telling you something. If you love it and get an intern place via SEO then you might be lucky to get a return offer. If you decide to do a masters, make sure you go for a top university though - the banks are pretty selective, although not necessarily for the right reasons. I've seen people make amazing careers transitions from the most unlikely of starting points by relentlessly focusing and giving themselves the tools that are needed on the job. It doesn't happen very often but when it does it's usually because the person focuses on the goal totally. Hope that helps. I also agree that a career in tech is likely to give you a lot more variety, flexibility and leisure time than IB. And maybe only slightly less money.

 

[Trojan1]

x

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Thank you for the advice.

You are right about CS though. Contracting / freelancing is a healthy way to go with experience. You do make a lot more per hour. Thing with CS though is that career progression is significantly slower and most won't ever make as much as Assosciates (3-5years) as a CS in that time. I'm sure they would have a better quality of life though.

Newcastle is fine for most things, a lot of grads I have talked to make it into really chill tech companies like IBM/Microsoft. A handful I've found even go into techie jobs at GS etc (LinkedIn). Literally no-one in FO roles though.
Have any of you had experiences with Notts? I think it's probably a more intense course, a lot more hassle for me to go to Notts, but having the option to go SWs and live IBD could be worth it. With Notts I might at least get past the CV filter. Pretty sure exposure like that would be seen as good on my CV if I decide to go into Tech as well. Seen any Notts CS guys around in FO?

What sort of Masters would I have to look into? Particularly Finance/Econ or could I further my CS, or even go into alternatives like Management/ Technology Policy at the top places. I get that it's just the 'brand' they look for, but also commitment to Finance.

By online modelling programs do you mean learning about financial modelling?

 

[thebondking1]

F Newcastle. Seriously. Pick a better uni. Do you want to say you went to Newcastle or Nottingham?

 

[Trojan1]

F Newcastle. Seriously. Pick a better uni. Do you want to say you went to Newcastle or Nottingham?

I'm leaning towards Notts. Unfortunately, I've had the displeasure of being naive and firming right away. I don't know why. I firmed Newcastle about a month ago, so I'm going to phone Notts and keep my fingers crossed I can get things changed.

What sort of things should I do whilst in Y13; Attend Insight Days, read M&I. Can't really think of anything else. Ideas?

 

[thebondking1]

I'm leaning towards Notts. Unfortunately, I've had the displeasure of being naive and firming right away. I don't know why. I firmed Newcastle about a month ago, so I'm going to phone Notts and keep my fingers crossed I can get things changed.

What sort of things should I do whilst in Y13; Attend Insight Days, read M&I. Can't really think of anything else. Ideas?

Have fun. If you really want to pick up the and start calling people. If you are even more keen try to get a summer off your connections. Attending insight days is imperative. Keep up with news. You are in high school for god's sake. Enjoy yourself..

 

[Trojan1]

Have fun. If you really want to pick up the and start calling people. If you are even more keen try to get a summer off your connections. Attending insight days is imperative. Keep up with news. You are in high school for god's sake. Enjoy yourself..

Hey, it's not all bad news! I do frequent the jeems (proud to say I now rep 100 with good form) and enjoy binging on Netflix, but ultimately I do want to land SWs and get an internship. After that summer, I would probably take a summer in HK/Singapore then see where things take me.

Any good news sources I ought to read, Economist/ Bloomberg?

Yes, I am in high school, but I'm up against Oxbridge clones that went to Eton, have perfect grades throughout and the connections to get them where they want. Pretty sure the only things I have in my tool belt is the right mind-set and the drive to start early.

 

[thebondking1]

Hey, it's not all bad news! I do frequent the jeems (proud to say I now rep 100 with good form) and enjoy binging on Netflix, but ultimately I do want to land SWs and get an internship. After that summer, I would probably take a summer in HK/Singapore then see where things take me.

Any good news sources I ought to read, Economist/ Bloomberg?

Yes, I am in high school, but I'm up against Oxbridge clones that went to Eton, have perfect grades throughout and the connections to get them where they want. Pretty sure the only things I have in my tool belt is the right mind-set and the drive to start early.

Son.. It's not about what you WOULD LIKE or WANT. Let me tell you something: ultimately EVERYONE interested in finance wants to land SWs. It's not just you. "See where things take you"? Do you even have an insight day secured bro? It's about puttin in the hours. 'Oxbridge clones' as you refer to them, believe it or not, work hard. Great connections? Sure. So what? Having the right mind-set is the fuckin rule in high finance, not the exception. "Drive" to start early? You are not the only one thinking about their career before even starting university. What steps have you taken so far with your "right mind-set" and "Drive to start early"? Didn't you just firm the University of Newcastle because you had no patience?

 

[Trojan1]

Son.. It's not about what you WOULD LIKE or WANT. Let me tell you something: ultimately EVERYONE interested in finance wants to land SWs. It's not just you. "See where things take you"? Do you even have an insight day secured bro? It's about fckn puttin in the hours. 'Oxbridge clones' as you refer to them, believe it or not, work hard. Great connections? Sure. So what? Having the right mind-set is the fuckin rule not the exception. "Drive" to start early? You are not the only one thinking about their career before even starting university. What steps have you taken so far with your "right mind-set" and "Drive to start early"? Didn't you just firm the University of Newcastle because you had no patience?

You have made valid points. Unfortunately, I'm not coming across very well on these posts. I'm not discrediting the 'oxbridge clones'; rather, stating that they have already gotten their shit sorted, whereas I have not. "See where things take me" implies that I would consider further decisions at a time after I was to gain exposure. I'm working on my applications to these insight days.

 

[thebondking1]

You have made valid points. Unfortunately, I'm not coming across very well on these posts. I'm not discrediting the 'oxbridge clones'; rather, stating that they have already gotten their shit sorted, whereas I have not. "See where things take me" implies that I would consider further decisions at a time after I was to gain exposure. I'm working on my applications to these insight days.

Damn right I did. Whatever man. It's an online forum, you say whatever you want. After you "gain exposure"? You mean get an internship over the summer? Working on applications for 'these insight days'? Do you even know what they entail?

Look here. I don't know your grades or the potential network you could tap on, but if you were a 2nd year or let alone a 3rd year at uni, I would say revisit your expectations heavily. But since you are just a high school kid, if you work your ass off from this stage (I am not even kidding) on you might actually make it. And don't give up. You see, if you want something, you have to also want the costs. Bottom line: get fuckin serious or you are just wasting your time here.

 

[Trojan1]

Damn right I did. Whatever man. It's an online forum, you say whatever you want. After you "gain exposure"? You mean get an internship over the summer? Working on applications for 'these insight days'? Do you even know what they entail?

Look here. I don't know your grades or the potential network you could tap on, but if you were a 2nd year or let alone a 3rd year at uni, I would say revisit your expectations heavily. But since you are just a high school kid, if you work your ass off from this stage (I am not even kidding) on you might actually make it. And don't give up. You see, if you want something, you have to also want the costs. Bottom line: get fuckin serious or you are just wasting your time here.

So what are your grades and where are you at now? Are you even an ibanker, how can you have time to be on these forums? As for applications, I presume most of these just want to know, 'why company x', and 'why x division of banking'. I'm reading up on WSO, m&i and unofficalguidetobanking, hopefully, to the extent to which I would be able to write a compelling application to get accepted onto these insight days. Is it worth looking into big 4 (EY/PwC/Deloitte etc) or just the banks?

 

[thebondking1]

So what are your grades and where are you at now? Are you even an ibanker, how can you have time to be on these forums? As for applications, I presume most of these just want to know, 'why company x', and 'why x division of banking'. I'm reading up on WSO, m&i and unofficalguidetobanking, hopefully, to the extent to which I would be able to write a compelling application to get accepted onto these insight days. Is it worth looking into big 4 (EY/PwC/Deloitte etc) or just the banks?

Worth it? That depends on how high of a horse you are on.

I am not a banker, or even have a full-time job offer, but I surely have more experience than you at this point. And my grades were quite shitty at HS for what it's worth, but I didn't let that hold me back. Anyway, I think you are vastly underestimating your competition.

 

[Positive Carry1]

Gentlemen,

Educational pedigree isn't everything. Well I must say it did help me start conversations with the key hiring personalities of companies (finished a graduate degree in a US-Target), what employers value more is your how you can tangibly contribute to their firms. There are other ways to demonstrate that aside from finishing from a target school (ie. write and share your blog, create a model portfolio, participate in competitions).

 

[thebondking1]

Gentlemen,

Educational pedigree isn't everything. Well I must say it did help me start conversations with the key hiring personalities of companies (finished a graduate degree in a US-Target), what employers value more is your how you can tangibly contribute to their firms. There are other ways to demonstrate that aside from finishing from a target school (ie. write and share your blog, create a model portfolio, participate in competitions).

I see where you are coming from but here in the UK we don't have OCR, in fact everything is done online. Going to a lower semi or non-target uni is a SERIOUS disadvantage to getting an interview. It's the sad truth and one is better off knowing that or they are wasting their time with applications. Average joes don't make it, by definition.