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What should undergraduate students do during their years at uni to increase chances of landing a full time job in investment after graduation? (UK)

H

HarryT1

New member
Jun
6
1
Hi everyone,

I am a second year undergraduate student who is interested in a career in investment (investment banking, asset management etc) and I am just wondering what I should do during my time at uni to stay ahead and be outstanding in the labour market after I graduate?

Thanks for all responses in advance.
 
Hi
Having been extensively involved in recruitment processes in both (IB and hedge fund), I think the two very differentiating things are
1/ Some form of education (ideally leading to a diploma) abroad, preferably not in a language class but say - an Economics course at Bocconi, St Gall or HEC Paris
2/ Learn to code, again with a diploma. And the closer you can get to AI the better. The MIT and Stanford have (expensive) online classes that lead to certificates.
And bonus track if you are interesting in asset management - start building a small track record. Even if it trading a small sum. But you need to choose the platform carefully: it needs to show a detailed analysis of your performance. Try Interactive Brokers.
Good luck!
 
Some good advice above.

Universities typically offer an exchange year or semester abroad which is usually competitive to get (it tends to be coupled with a scholarship), but are quite a valuable addition to your CV. It proves character, and ability to fit in with a foreign culture (which may or may not be anyway, say if you are Asian and go to HK). Tip: make sure to have some convincing reasons to tell your interviewers as to why *you* should go abroad and not someone else. I managed to land such an exchange year abroad, I had a rather interesting profile (started a business, I was already a foreigner, had friends there who I met at my student accommodation in first year at uni) so I pulled on these. It was a very good (semi-target) college in the USA and it was a really sweet deal indeed since my tuition fee for that year was reduced from 9k to 1k and it also covered my tuition fee at the partner institution which was a rather astronomical amount (something like 60 thousand USD for a single year which gets you a full degree in the UK).

Coding is absolutely an invaluable skill to learn. Maybe not so much if you want to become a banker (you can get away knowing only Excel), but really much if a trader, any other career or you have an "idea" that you want to build. Probably much easier said than done, if you don't study the subject as part of your formal education but it can be done if you find a mentor (this is what I did) or any other way you can make it work (bootcamp, online courses, whatever it may be). I'd suggest not starting unless you genuinely want to turn a particular idea into an app, as otherwise you'll struggle and give up after the first challenge. Excel VBA is a very useful skill, and is usually picked up on the job, but if you can teach yourself it, will add some value to any resume.

I'd say having "traded own portfolio" on a resume will barely make any difference since basically every 3rd student has this on their resume as well. With the amount of competition out there, this is pretty much nothing apart from having someone to talk about in your interviews. It's an easy win. Volunteering abroad, even if you need to pay for it, is a lot more unique and demonstrates a lot more "grit" than sitting in your bedroom and clicking Buy and Sell buttons.
 
HarryT said:
Hi everyone,

I am a second year undergraduate student who is interested in a career in investment (investment banking, asset management etc) and I am just wondering what I should do during my time at uni to stay ahead and be outstanding in the labour market after I graduate?

Thanks for all responses in advance.
Click to expand...
First, the basics:
  • make sure you are on course for at least 2:1/the top 10/20% of your class
  • be familiar with relevant software applications - I was surprised on how often I had to explain slightly advanced excel funtions to fresh graduates
  • try to get one or several prestigious names on your CV for summer internships, spring week or other internships/work experiences (my personal preference is for them to be long enough to be relevant, e.g. a one day "follow your boss" experience does not really count, but I know that some recruiters do not feel this way)
  • be involved in one or more relevant societies/groups at uni and try to get into a leadership position for one year
  • prove interest in relevant subjects, e.g. run your own portfolio - this could be a virtual one in which you can get crazy with options etc. (pro tip: run several of them with different strategies and then only show off with the most successful one)
Then, try to set yourself apart/stand out (everyone is trying at least some of the above):
  • master relevant coding languages (think R or Python rather than software development) and get certificates, e.g. from DataCamp if your uni has a subscription
  • get quant and/or ML experience - depending on your uni, get a really prestigious additional name on your CV (e.g. Harvard, Columbia) through courses at edX or other providers, not as expensive as you might think
  • forget all of the above and get involved in a subject that is close to your heart and master it - could be sports, arts, history, but show that you are an interesting person to talk to outside of investment/finance; if you can get something on paper to prove this (certificates, prizes etc.), even better
  • some areas of finance are more about long-term trends, so try to do background reading as well, e.g. a pension provider needs to know how climate change will affect its position over the next 20, 30 years; they will like you to know you reverse iron butterfly spreads, but also how you could future-proof a portfolio for 4 degrees global warming
  • get fluent in another language as in not just "¿Dónde está la biblioteca?", but being able to hold an impromptu conversation on a topic of your counterpart's choice, so probably B2 or C1 - again, get certificates for this
 
HarryT said:
Hi everyone,

I am a second year undergraduate student who is interested in a career in investment (investment banking, asset management etc) and I am just wondering what I should do during my time at uni to stay ahead and be outstanding in the labour market after I graduate?

Thanks for all responses in advance.
Click to expand...
Given that your career intentions are fairly broad-ranging at this stage (investment banking and asset management are very different), you should concentrate on developing a mature and informed thinking process. Additional or technical skills - coding, another language, etc - are desirable, but even more desirable is the ability to think objectively, evaluate objectively, and decide objectively.

To train yourself for that, read widely - not just the FT, WSJ, and The Economist, or seminal works like Peter Bernstein's 'Against the Gods', but classic novels, essays, and history. They will help you to look at all information askance, preparing you to be questioning, curious, and investigative.

You should also travel as much as you can. Find new ways, e.g., join the crew of a yacht that's exploring the North-West Passage, Brazil, or Patagonia.

What will impress interviewers most is not an impressive array of ticked educational boxes, but the ability to see and think independently, above and beyond. That will only come from expanding your horizons with reading, travel, and some hands-on experience of other lives, other places.
 
Thanks a lot for your advice.
I will start my one year placement at Wellington Management in London this June so do you guys have any advice on what I should do to make the most of my time there?
I also think about passing CFA exam level 1 before I graduate and adding it to my CV. Will that be a good thing to do?
 
HarryT said:
Thanks a lot for your advice.
I will start my one year placement at Wellington Management in London this June so do you guys have any advice on what I should do to make the most of my time there?
I also think about passing CFA exam level 1 before I graduate and adding it to my CV. Will that be a good thing to do?
Click to expand...
The CFA qualification is valuable - essential, even. Most investment managers will let you take time from work to do the course; some might even help you pay for it.

Whatever you do, make sure to remain curious. Always want to know more.
 
HarryT said:
Thanks a lot for your advice.
I will start my one year placement at Wellington Management in London this June so do you guys have any advice on what I should do to make the most of my time there?
I also think about passing CFA exam level 1 before I graduate and adding it to my CV. Will that be a good thing to do?
Click to expand...
Definitely - try to pass level 2 if you can. You will have more time to prepare during your uni days and there are some overlaps between your courses and the CFA curriculum. There is an interesting dicussion here https://www.canarywharfian.co.uk/threads/mba-vs-cfa.717/
 
Shane H Norman said:
Given that your career intentions are fairly broad-ranging at this stage (investment banking and asset management are very different), you should concentrate on developing a mature and informed thinking process. Additional or technical skills - coding, another language, etc - are desirable, but even more desirable is the ability to think objectively, evaluate objectively, and decide objectively.

To train yourself for that, read widely - not just the FT, WSJ, and The Economist, or seminal works like Peter Bernstein's 'Against the Gods', but classic novels, essays, and history. They will help you to look at all information askance, preparing you to be questioning, curious, and investigative.

You should also travel as much as you can. Find new ways, e.g., join the crew of a yacht that's exploring the North-West Passage, Brazil, or Patagonia.

What will impress interviewers most is not an impressive array of ticked educational boxes, but the ability to see and think independently, above and beyond. That will only come from expanding your horizons with reading, travel, and some hands-on experience of other lives, other places.
Click to expand...
Also, be open-minded when considering different roles and industries, try to explore as many as you can and find what genuinely interests you/fits your personality and background. Network with like-minded peers, or school alumni, this will help you with that. @LondonFinance's summary is also quite useful, is an extensive list of easy-win things to do to improve your resume. Here are some articles on you might find useful:
CFA

Other

Good luck
 
Hi Harry,

Well, you seem to be on the right track already by asking this question!

There are a lot of good posts here and on other forums. I suggest you consume all that information, engage with some posts, and ask questions if things aren't clear.

The obvious steps, which I'm sure you're aware of, involve trying to arrange internships and speaking to people working in the firms you're interested in. If you don't have any personal contacts, consider following some individuals on LinkedIn and engage with their posts. Leave comments, ask questions, and after some time, you could try to connect and message them directly.

Read a lot of books - there are so many great ones about investing. I will be posting a series of posts containing reading lists soon. If you need some ideas on where to start, keep an eye out for those. Who knows, I might even write a book on Asset Management!

Lastly, try to work out what you enjoy and then be honest about whether that fits with the jobs you're considering. For instance, I enjoy history, figuring out how things work, engineering, science, Art, and taking risks. I don't like to work too hard, have a short attention span, and don't suffer fools. Notice I didn't mention stock markets, economics, or investing, but all these interests align with those areas and mean I mostly enjoy my job. It's hindsight speaking here, but I know that these wouldn't fit with a high-pressure, long-hour investment banking role, for example. So while it might be hard at this point in your career to be so clear-cut, you could start by making a list of what you like and don't like, and then try to map that to the jobs you're considering.
Shane H Norman said:
The CFA qualification is valuable - essential, even. Most investment managers will let you take time from work to do the course; some might even help you pay for it.

Whatever you do, make sure to remain curious. Always want to know more.
Click to expand...
Actually I have to hard disagree on this one. Unless you are intending to go into an equity analyst role or aim for a stock picking PM type role then CFA is irrelevant, people get so excited about it and its not easy but really its not needed at all for many career paths.

In any case you will need to get the job first, then your firm will probably let you take it and you will get study time off etc. But depending on the career you want to pursue there maybe more relevant courses like PRM/CQF etc, the majority of macro managers I know never went anywhere near a CFA qualification. I would only recommend it if perhaps your university and school experience is very art's based.
 
HarryT said:
Thanks a lot for your advice.
I will start my one year placement at Wellington Management in London this June so do you guys have any advice on what I should do to make the most of my time there?
I also think about passing CFA exam level 1 before I graduate and adding it to my CV. Will that be a good thing to do?
Click to expand...
It would help to know exactly what your area your placement is in at Wellington, I know quite a few people there. As I mentioned before CFA is useful for somethings but not for others.

Also how does a one year placement work if you have not graduated university ?
 
HowardM said:
It would help to know exactly what your area your placement is in at Wellington, I know quite a few people there. As I mentioned before CFA is useful for somethings but not for others.

Also how does a one year placement work if you have not graduated university ?
Click to expand...
Hi Howard,

Thanks a lot for your input. I deeply appreciate your advice.

My undergraduate course is a 4 year course and year 3 is an optional placement year. After the placement, I will come back to uni to complete my degree.

My team at Wellington is InvestTech - Operations (Portfolio Accounting and Reconciliation Control Group)

My course at uni is Accounting and Finance. For now I have not been clear on what exact role in finance will suit me. I just know for sure that I am very interested in investing and I wanna master it so I would like a job that is specialised in investment analysis.
 
HarryT said:
Hi Howard,

Thanks a lot for your input. I deeply appreciate your advice.

My undergraduate course is a 4 year course and year 3 is an optional placement year. After the placement, I will come back to uni to complete my degree.

My team at Wellington is InvestTech - Operations (Portfolio Accounting and Reconciliation Control Group)

My course at uni is Accounting and Finance. For now I have not been clear on what exact role in finance will suit me. I just know for sure that I am very interested in investing and I wanna master it so I would like a job that is specialised in investment analysis.
Click to expand...
Hi Harry,

There is a lot of good advice on here and I don't have a lot to add beyond be interested in the business and in other people and be interesting in your own right - all firms see no end of cookie-cutter undergrads, try and stand out in some way (not in a bad way, obviously, but not in predictable way either - be yourself and let people know about what enthuses you, even if it is not directly job relevant). You are not going into a front-office role, so try and get to know the front office people as well, as that is where you probably want to work eventually (but, at the same time, don't give the back-office guys the impression that you don't want to be there or that you don't value their roles!).
 
JFH said:
Hi Harry,

There is a lot of good advice on here and I don't have a lot to add beyond be interested in the business and in other people and be interesting in your own right - all firms see no end of cookie-cutter undergrads, try and stand out in some way (not in a bad way, obviously, but not in predictable way either - be yourself and let people know about what enthuses you, even if it is not directly job relevant). You are not going into a front-office role, so try and get to know the front office people as well, as that is where you probably want to work eventually (but, at the same time, don't give the back-office guys the impression that you don't want to be there or that you don't value their roles!).
Click to expand...
Thanks a lot JFH
 
HarryT said:
Hi Howard,

Thanks a lot for your input. I deeply appreciate your advice.

My undergraduate course is a 4 year course and year 3 is an optional placement year. After the placement, I will come back to uni to complete my degree.

My team at Wellington is InvestTech - Operations (Portfolio Accounting and Reconciliation Control Group)

My course at uni is Accounting and Finance. For now I have not been clear on what exact role in finance will suit me. I just know for sure that I am very interested in investing and I wanna master it so I would like a job that is specialised in investment analysis.
Click to expand...
No problem Harry, happy to help.

Sounds like your course is well suited to the placement and I'm sure you will learn a lot about the nuts and bolts of investments, even if you go on to work in the front office eventually understanding how the back and middle offices work is really useful. Wellington are a great company so well done on the placement.

Best of luck and anymore questions just shout.
 
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